Dive into the world of fraud with the "What The Fraud?" podcast! 🚀 In this episode, Tom is joined by Arthur Bedel, Global Director of Revenue at VGS and fintech advisor. They discuss the future of real-time payments, global fraud trends, case studies, regional adoption differences, and what financial institutions need to do to stay ahead of fraud.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Hello, dear audience, and welcome to series three of What The Fraud?, a podcast by Sumsub, where digital fraudsters meet their match. I’m Thomas Taraniuk, Head of Partnerships at Sumsub, the global verification platform helping to verify users, businesses—and, of course, transactions.
Real-time payments have become the bedrock of modern life. Whether you’re splitting a dinner bill or sending high-value corporate payouts, we’re now used to moving money instantly—and irreversibly.
But with this convenience comes risk. These instant transactions give banks only milliseconds to flag suspicious activity. Today, we’re exploring both the benefits and the darker side of real-time payments: a new wave of fraud risks, liability challenges, and the constant need for better controls.
In this episode, we sit down with a real expert in the field—Arthur Bedel, a fintech advisor, Global Director of Revenue at VGS, and co-founder of Connecting the Dots in Payments—a global platform curating the latest insights from the payments world.
Arthur, let’s rewind a bit. What first drew you to payments and infrastructure? Was there something specific about this space that attracted you?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Funnily enough, I think most people sort of fall into this industry—you don’t really choose it. What fascinated me was its reach and impact. Everything connects to payments: identity, fraud, finance. It impacts everyone. Everyone either needs to get paid or to pay.
What intrigued me was how simple it looks on the surface, but how incredibly complex it is underneath. The systems behind everyday transactions are working nonstop, globally. Once I started digging into it, I couldn’t stop learning. And here I am—hopefully for a good while longer.
THOMAS TARANIUK: I completely agree. Payments affect everyone, so stopping fraud in this space really is everyone’s concern. Last year, you launched Connecting the Dots in Payments. What gap did you see in the market that led you to create it?
ARTHUR BEDEL: To give you some context, Connecting the Dots originally started with my partner, who’s been in the payment space for years—he’s exited two companies and advises major firms. About six years ago, he started sharing fintech news on LinkedIn, especially around payments, which was always his main focus.
When I entered the payments world a few years ago, I found it extremely complex. I felt like I wasn’t getting clear, straightforward information—so I started doing my own research. Rather than keep that learning to myself, I began sharing it. My approach was more educational than news-driven. While my partner focused on centralizing news, I focused on breaking down complex topics as I learned them.
THOMAS TARANIUK: So it started as a way for you to learn—and ended up helping others learn, too. I’ve seen your posts, and they’re incredibly easy to digest.
Since you’ve entered the payments world, real-time transactions have exploded. What used to take days now happens in seconds. According to ACI Worldwide, real-time payments are projected to more than double over the next five years, reaching 575 billion by 2028.
From your unique position—spanning both merchant networks and the broader payments ecosystem—where do you see the momentum building in real-time payments, and where is it headed?
ARTHUR BEDEL: There’s a use case for everyone: consumers, merchants, service providers. It’s just the natural direction for payments. Of course, there are issues—and I’m sure we’ll get into those—but the trend is definitely accelerating.
And yes, I did post about that ACI report, so it’s funny you brought it up!
THOMAS TARANIUK: With Connecting the Dots, you’ve got a bird’s eye view of the payments landscape—geographically and sector-wise. You’ve also spent a lot of time traveling and speaking with experts. We know adoption varies significantly by region. For instance, South America has rapidly embraced real-time payments, while North America has been slower. What factors are driving these different adoption rates?
ARTHUR BEDEL: In the US, you’ve got FedNow and RTP already in play. But factors like identity fraud, risk appetite, and existing payment behaviors influence adoption.
Different regions leapfrog different stages.
In APAC, for instance, many countries skipped cards entirely and went straight to digital wallets.
In Latin America, they jumped from cash to real-time payments.
The US, on the other hand, is still very card-centric. The networks originate there, and they’ve built robust trust layers—like tokenization and chargeback protections—that aren’t yet fully established around RTP.
In places like Latin America, people want funds instantly because if it takes three to five days, they might never get them. In the US, there’s a higher baseline of trust that the money will arrive, eventually.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Fraud is already a growing concern globally. According to research by FICO, 33% of Americans experienced a scam in 2024—up from 20% in 2023. The speed of real-time transactions opens up even more avenues for fraud.
Are you seeing specific vulnerabilities emerging—in authentication methods, merchant systems, or even user behavior?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Definitely. One major concern right now is synthetic identity fraud. It’s incredibly hard to combat. A fraudster might use a real Social Security number paired with fake supporting documents. Or today, with AI, they could even fabricate the Social Security number itself and combine it with fake but convincing information.
Suggested read: The Dark Side of Deepfakes: A Halloween Horror Story
It’s extremely difficult to tackle fraud when you’re only looking at a single piece of information. Real-time payments (RTP) are designed to be fast and frictionless, but that makes running comprehensive security checks on every document nearly impossible. Unless there’s a network of companies actively sharing data—say, reporting fraudulent behavior in real time—you’re always one step behind. Behavioral analysis is key here.
But even that has limits. AI, for example, isn’t always the savior people expect. Just to give you a real-world example—and I’m not suggesting anyone do this—but someone could go to an AI, say where they ate, and ask it to generate a fake receipt with any number, any group size. It’s crazy. This stuff is actually happening. How do we fight that? It’s tough.
There’s also first-party fraud—what I like to call “buyer’s remorse” fraud. Someone makes a legitimate transaction, then later tries to reverse it. With RTP, it’s hard to cancel anything, and the fees are high. So you start seeing different fraud patterns depending on the region.
Honestly, fraudsters are some of the smartest people out there. No matter how much security you build, they find ways around it. I see a lot of synthetic identity fraud, first-party fraud, APP and push-payment fraud—like with accounts payable. Once the funds are pushed out, they’re nearly impossible to recover. And often, people fall for scams entirely on their own, sending money to fake companies they think are real.
Suggested read: What is Authorized Push Payment (APP) Fraud?—Complete Guide
So honestly, I want to flip the question back to you—how do you guys deal with this?
THOMAS TARANIUK: From our perspective, you’ve touched on some crucial points. On a global scale, RTP introduces a new dynamic: instant gratification. Transactions are processed in seconds—not days—and reversing them after they happen is nearly impossible. That’s why spotting fraud indicators before they happen is so important.
We look at behavioral patterns, device intelligence, and other attributes we can tie to a user’s identity. Over 70% of fraud happens after KYC procedures are completed. That’s why linking the full customer journey is essential—not just to protect revenue, but to protect communities of users. There’s a level of trust at stake here.
And I think we need to reshape how people view fraud. It’s not just a “naughty” thing. If you’re committing fraud, you’re a criminal. That message has to be loud and clear.
ARTHUR BEDEL: Totally agree. And that’s why what you guys are doing with this podcast—raising awareness—is so important. As for practical steps, we need to shift focus to before the transaction. That means behavioral analysis, device fingerprinting, tokenization. Tokenization alone won’t stop synthetic identity fraud, but it can help protect credentials from being reused.
There are things you can put in place prior to a transaction. Once the transaction happens—especially in RTP environments—it’s almost too late. And the problem is only going to grow. We’re already talking about e-commerce transactions on mobile, but what about AI agents making purchases on our behalf? What protections exist there?
Tokenization so far has mostly applied to cards. That’s fine. But I had this chat recently with a good friend who knows the French payments market inside out. We were talking about how easy it is to cancel a stolen card and get a new one. But what happens when someone steals your bank account info? That’s way more complicated to handle.
And with open banking and RTP, bank account details are often the credentials being used. That’s scary. So we need strong pre-transaction measures to understand who the buyer is—profiling, as you said, based on behavior and biometrics. But just as importantly, we need networks of companies collaborating to detect and prevent synthetic identities.
On top of that, during the transaction, we can analyze real-time behavior: how someone types their card number, how they hold their phone, the speed of interaction—biometric and behavioral markers that give away whether a transaction is legitimate. These tools help, but again, much of this happens after something has already gone wrong.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Exactly. And the payments landscape is evolving so quickly that most organizations are playing catch-up. Are we sacrificing security for speed? That’s the big question. How should the industry balance the need for seamless payments with the responsibility to protect everyone involved?
ARTHUR BEDEL: When you look at merchants, their primary goal is to create the best experience for consumers. But payments and fraud are opposing levers. The more you push payment acceptance, the higher your fraud risk. For example, if you work with card networks like Visa or Mastercard and your fraud ratio gets too high, you face fines. So you have to be strategic.
Right now, I think the trend is clearly toward customer-centricity. I’ve been following some great initiatives. It’s all about empowering the customer. When you speak to the biggest merchants, their decisions are driven by one thing: what the customer wants.
Of course, there’s also the geopolitical layer—data sovereignty, regional tensions—but in practice, it comes down to user experience. And to your earlier point, I do think networks are innovating. Token frameworks that link a token to a user’s biometrics and device—basically replicating the Apple Pay experience outside of the Apple ecosystem—are really promising.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Exactly. It’s about making life easier for users. That’s what opens up new possibilities. But again, given how irreversible RTP is, shouldn’t banks, consumers, and even governments bear more responsibility when fraud does occur?
Europe and the UK have introduced stricter regulations on financial institutions offering real-time payments. Do you think this is a model others should follow globally?
ARTHUR BEDEL: That’s a good one. I’m not sure it’s about regulations per se, because regulations are shaped by how each region governs itself—culturally, economically, and politically. The same rules that work in the UK might not work in Germany, and those probably won’t apply in France. Every country operates differently. So no, I don’t think one-size-fits-all regulation is realistic or effective.
For me, it’s more about the technology we develop and how we leverage it. That’s where the real solution lies. We should focus on advancements like AI, biometrics, passkeys, and linking payments directly to identity. Blockchain is also part of that equation: using these technologies to create better processes and infrastructure to combat fraud while still enabling the best performance.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Absolutely. That’s why I love Connecting the Dots in Payments. We’re seeing rising levels of fraud in the RTP space, so the question becomes: who’s best positioned to stop these bad actors? And how can we apply innovative methodologies to not only slow them down but redefine how we think about real-time payments altogether?
At the end of the day, consumers want protection—but they also expect seamless service. They don’t want delays, and they certainly don’t want to feel like we’re going backwards.
Real-time payments have transformed how we move and manage money, not just for consumers but unfortunately for fraudsters too. As the tech evolves, so do the tactics. That’s exactly why we’re hosting the What the Fraud Summit, happening November 19–20 in Singapore. No single industry can keep up with these emerging threats alone. This summit brings together experts across fintech, crypto, compliance, and more to collectively address the risks tied to the convenience of instant payments.
Experts from Crypto.com, HSBC, Ernst & Young, and other leading companies will share strategies on using AI to flag fraud in real time, strengthening payment infrastructure, and staying agile amid shifting global regulations. We’re expecting 50+ speakers and over 500 attendees—40% of them C-suite. So if you’re serious about fraud prevention, follow the link below.
Now Arthur, as we look ahead, what’s your take on the current state of real-time fraud prevention? From your perspective, are legacy systems still fit for purpose?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Honestly, no. The reality is that we’ve been mostly reactive, not proactive. We wait for fraud to happen, then scramble to contain it. And I think synthetic identity fraud is going to be one of the biggest issues in 2025. If we want to be proactive, it can’t just be about protecting revenue—it has to be about delivering the best possible experience for consumers.
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We need collaboration—true collaboration—not just across companies, but also at the governmental level. There are some really interesting models out there. For example, there’s a company in the payments orchestration space that created an open-source platform. That’s smart because it allows others to build on top of it. It’s similar to the open-source versus closed-source approach—like Google versus Apple. There’s real value in that openness, especially if we want to scale solutions.
But today, there’s still a gap. Governments aren’t aligned, and tensions across regions make collaboration tricky. Still, I believe we have to try. There are already some bright spots—especially in how networks are working on token frameworks. They’re doing good work there.
For example, Mastercard recently introduced something around agent-based purchasing. It’s not just about intent anymore—it’s about consent. And capturing both in a tokenized format? That’s promising. That’s how you get proactive. That’s how we stay ahead.
Companies like yours have a massive opportunity to build solutions that scale, not just for individual businesses but at a global level. Because that’s the scope we need to be thinking on.
Here’s the tension: AI is the most powerful force for good, and is also the most powerful force for harm. Fraudsters are using these same tools. We’re even starting to see transaction requests from AI agents, not just via humans or phones.
THOMAS TARANIUK: But inherently, that’s going to come with its own risks, right? It’s a double-edged sword. We’ve got rising pressure to innovate using AI, and now fraudsters also have access to combat those preventative measures. We’re entering a constant cat-and-mouse game. As you mentioned earlier, we’re likely to find ourselves on the defensive, always trying to identify where these attacks are coming from and how to block them with new innovations.
Do you think fintechs and neobanks will be forced to cut corners on fraud prevention in any way?
ARTHUR BEDEL: If I answer that…
THOMAS TARANIUK: Without names, yeah.
ARTHUR BEDEL: I think it’s already happening. That’s the tricky part of operating in the gray areas. Yes, some companies are cutting corners in how they handle things. Will they face consequences? I’m not sure. Some of this is so new that what they’re doing might not technically be compliant today, but because it’s innovative and addresses new use cases, it might be allowed—or at least tolerated.
So yes, companies are cutting corners. Whether or not that’s acceptable is still up for debate.
THOMAS TARANIUK: From your perspective, if you could predict one major shift in how fintechs will combat fraud in the next three to five years—and let’s say you had a magic wand—what would it be?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Better use of blockchain. Look, AI’s been around. In payments, smart routing’s been around. Now, everyone just tries to define what “AI” means—is it machine learning, deep learning, generative AI? But it’s not new.
Blockchain, on the other hand, has untapped potential. What’s fascinating is this: 99.999% of people don’t understand how Visa or Mastercard actually work, yet they use them daily. Ask people about blockchain and I bet more of them actually understand it—or at least want to. It’s new, it’s shiny, it draws interest.
If customers still receive the same user experience while the backend shifts to blockchain—a technology that’s inherently secure and transparent—that could be transformative.
What’s interesting is that blockchain isn’t competing against the card networks. In fact, networks are now innovating using blockchain too. With smart contracts and scalable infrastructure, you can bring in AI, build new networks, and think on a truly global level.
I believe blockchain will become the foundation. AI will simply be a tool to accelerate growth. So yes, blockchain is my prediction—it’s going to evolve, and so will the use cases it powers.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Absolutely. The industry is evolving fast, though not all at once. It’s incremental and often region-specific. Markets like LATAM and North America are responding in real-time to the unique fraud challenges they face. And that’s going to drive how these innovations roll out globally.
Before we wrap up, I’d like to do a few quick-fire questions—nothing too serious! Just a way to get to know you better. You ready?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Yeah, sure!
THOMAS TARANIUK: Let’s go. When choosing a digital wallet, do you go for more features or better security?
ARTHUR BEDEL: More features.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Interesting! What’s one thing about how people use digital payments that still surprises you, even with all your experience?
ARTHUR BEDEL: That they don’t use it.
THOMAS TARANIUK: That they don’t? Really?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Yeah. For example, after all the identification layers we implement online, people still believe that in-person card transactions are more secure. Think about it—someone could steal your wallet and make purchases without being identified. If my phone is off and my card is lost, someone could use it for hours before I even know. Yet online transactions require authentication. It’s crazy that physical card payments still have that kind of presence. Everything is moving toward digital wallets.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Very true. And some regions are skipping cards altogether and jumping straight to wallets. On that note—have you ever personally been a victim of fraud?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Once. In San Francisco.
THOMAS TARANIUK: San Francisco?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Yeah. Someone stole my card. I looked at my statement and saw a $250 charge at a hair salon. I was like, seriously? Straight to the barbershop? I was with family, so it was fine, but I called Amex and they were incredible. Their customer service was great. So yeah, it has happened to me.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Glad you got away with just that. Not as bad as some stories we’ve heard on here. Final quick-fire question—if you could be in any other industry or role outside of what you do today, what would it be?
ARTHUR BEDEL: What I love most about what I do is the position I have—I’m more of a voice than an expert. I don’t think I’d change that.
But if I could? Drive Formula 1. Or be a professional tennis player, like my good friend who just turned pro. Maybe even do what I do now in a different industry—blockchain, maybe. I’d love to be someone who travels the world finding and exploring new ideas and technologies, and trying new wines.
THOMAS TARANIUK: Well, you do travel everywhere—and you do try new wines too. But seriously, F1 driver—that’s a cool one. But nothing to do with payments. Maybe crypto?
ARTHUR BEDEL: Haha, blockchain, I love that. But I’m probably not suited for high-detail roles. I’m more of a macro thinker, seeing the big picture.
THOMAS TARANIUK: You’ve definitely got the wide lens. And I think I can speak for everyone when I say we love the way you break things down in Connecting the Dots in Payments, and beyond. Arthur, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been fantastic having you on the podcast and learning from your insights.
ARTHUR BEDEL: Thank you.
