Dive into the world of fraud with the "What The Fraud?" podcast! 🚀 Our guest today is Mark Taylor, Global Head of Financial Crime/MLRO at CEX.IO. Mark and Tom discuss the rise of cryptocurrency in 2024, the increasing sophistication of fraud, the alarming trend of AI-driven fraud, and the Crypto Travel Rule.
TOM TARANIUK: Hello, and welcome back to series two of “What the Fraud?” I’m Thomas Taraniuk, currently responsible for some of our very exciting partnerships here at Sumsub, the global verification platform, helping to verify and protect users, businesses and transactions as well. Today we’re revisiting crypto fraud from a different perspective. This time, we’re discussing how crypto fraud has changed this year and what role regulations like the Travel Rule play in combating it. So with the surge of cryptocurrency in 2024, it’s no surprise that fraudsters are becoming increasingly creative and deceptive.
Also, check out this episode of the “What The Fraud?” Podcast on crypto scams.
Crypto-related scams even started to infiltrate the 2024 elections. So we’ll delve into these issues and explore the rise of AI-driven fraud schemes too. In this episode, including a deepfake AI-scam involving a major crypto exchange, this case involved a user tragically falling victim to a staggering security breach of their account, losing more than 2 million USD to scammers wielding AI-generated deepfake technology. The incident serves as a stark warning and reminder about the escalating threat of AI-driven cybercrime in the crypto world that we see today, demonstrating an urgent need for heightened security awareness, of course, and the implementation of advanced protective measures to fend off these increasingly sophisticated attacks.
So let’s introduce our guest, Mark Taylor. Mark is a former police officer with 16 years of experience on the front line, specializing in armed response, taking down organized crime and terrorism as well. So after seeing the brutal reality of criminal networks, he shifted gears into financial crime, quickly becoming a leader in the anti-money laundering (AML) space. Now, deep in the world of crypto, he’s on a mission to fight financial crime and push for smarter, balanced regulations. Mark, welcome to the show.
MARK TAYLOR: Hi. Thank you very much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
TOM TARANIUK: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Mark. Moving from the front lines of law enforcement yourself to the digital battlefield of financial crime, it’s quite a leap, right? So what has actually inspired you, Mark, to make the shift from traditional law enforcement to the world of AML and crypto as well?
MARK TAYLOR: The reason that I moved from law enforcement into anti-financial crime was a conjunction really of a personal situation. But also I was getting very frustrated with the way that we seem to be on the firearms team, wrestling the same sort of people over and over, especially when it was organized criminals and we were dealing, if it wasn’t with them, with their same gang and it was a real difficult situation, standing back and watching the people operate back in our communities again. And I remembered a conversation I had with a special branch officer. And he said, we’re just going around in the justice system, merry-go-round here. If you really want to hurt them, you’ve got to hit them where it hurts, and that’s in their money. And I kind of took that to heart. And I had the opportunity to start working in anti-financial crime in Gibraltar in the online gaming industry and my career. I found it very satisfying in my career. Quite quickly took off into senior management in compliance and AML and Counter-Terrorist Financing (CTF), and anti-fraud.
TOM TARANIUK: With your background as well, I imagine you’ve seen firsthand how criminals or criminal networks operate on a day to day basis, and whether it’s in the physical world or through financial systems digitally. How does your experience influence your approach to fighting financial crime in the crypto space, and particularly at CEX.IO as well?
MARK TAYLOR: We’ve got to look to the old ways of doing things as well and not lose our old expertise on how to notice these things and these type of patterns. The changing in technology and the development of it is incredibly important for us to stay on top of to understand how it works. That’s when I say we, I mean those in the anti-financial crime, but also those in law enforcement and government regulatory bodies. I think it’s really important that they understand how technology works, but not to get so focused on technology that you forget the old ways of how we used to detect and understand how these organizations carried out their crimes. Because although the technology is changing, the kind of base way of doing it and the the real reasons of why you want to money launder, why you want to commit a scam, they stayed the same and they can be very human factors and they don’t change through technology.
TOM TARANIUK: Oh absolutely. Mark, I completely agree there. And these technologies are coming out of the actual issue that we’re seeing at hand. I mean, by the time this episode comes out and we’ll be edging towards the end of the year, and by the end of 2024, over 1.5 billion USD of stolen funds in crypto. And I mean, that’s a staggering number, right? So more than double of what was stolen during the same fiscal period of 2023. I mean, it’s a clear cut route that we’re seeing or path that crypto-related thefts are on the rise, however. I mean, the number of hacking incidents is only slightly increasing as well. I mean, from from your expertise what factors do you think are driving this significant jump from 2023 to 24? And we’ll probably see it in 25.
MARK TAYLOR: I think it’s the same thing that affected a lot of us before we got into crypto, was our lack of knowledge about how it works, but also an interest in perhaps creating another income stream. And that’s not always possible for people. So when you see that people are making tens of thousands of dollars off crypto, you might want to go at it. And the problem is, unfortunately, that crypto can be a very complicated space. And the scammers and the fraudsters know this, and they know that there will be people out there lost without a map, and they’re there very quickly saying, look, I can provide you with the GPS to find out where you’re going. I’ve got the knowledge I can help you. And I think they’re really taking advantage of perhaps that lack of knowledge. I would suggest perhaps even though it happens, it would be a lot harder to scam a professional crypto investor than it would your ma and pa who just want to invest $1,000, $5,000, whatever. But they haven’t got a clue how to do it, so they seek help online on how to do that. And unfortunately, that help isn’t always positive help.
TOM TARANIUK: Criminals at the end of the day are going to continue to leverage sophisticated tactics right from phishing that we’ve seen as of the last two, well, 20 years, to Ponzi schemes, which we’ve seen further down the line as well. But these are increasingly used as real tactics, such as deepfakes to get funds out of innocent people, right? I mean, Mark, would you be able to remind our audience how deepfakes are actually being used to exploit the industry from your personal experience as well.
MARK TAYLOR: Yeah, absolutely. So there are various ways people are utilizing AI, ranging from simple scams, like pretending to be Simon Cowell saying, ‘Look, I invest in this,’ which tend to target those less educated on the subject or the elderly. I’ve had to answer the phone many times and tell my mom, ‘No, Simon Cowell really isn’t trying to sell you an investment, and it’s not legitimate.’ This is usually followed by a 15-minute conversation where she insists, ‘No, it’s him. I’m looking at him on the screen,’ while I try to explain the level of technology involved. There are scams like that, but there are also deeper scams, such as deepfake scams, like the example you mentioned earlier, where someone was scammed out of a lot of money.
Suggested read: What Are Deepfakes?
Now, in the reports for that. There were several references. One said his information was purchased on Telegram. One says that his information was obtained on Telegram. But either way, at some point those fraudsters have got to interact with the exchange. And as we know nowadays, technology is moving forward, and it’s very rare that the exchange will just ask you to send a driving license or a photograph of a payment card to prove that you own it. A lot of the times now you’re asked for a video, or for a call if you want to change the password. If you want to change the two settings on the account, you’ve got to get in touch or send a video in a liveness check or something like that to the exchange. And one of the ways that they’re utilizing that is they utilizing deepfakes to make it look from people’s photographs and videos on social media, it doesn’t take too much to be able to create a fairly convincing deepfake to convince the crypto exchanges that they are dealing with the actual customer.
So there are various levels on it. There’s kind of the broad social media, and then there’s the very specific, I’ve got to prove who I am, even though I’m a fraudster. I’ve got to prove I’m this customer and utilizing it for that. Then there’s the other way of scamming it, which is a very personal way of doing it, whereby you may get a relative call you saying, ‘I’m stuck in Bulgaria, I’ve lost my passport, I don’t know what to do. Can you send me money?’ And on the phone I’m listening to my uncle say this, but it really isn’t my uncle. And he passes me the account details, and so I pass it over to him. But it really wasn’t him. It was someone who was using deepfakes, whether in video or whether in voice to say, look, actually, I do need help, but in reality, it’s a scammer and a fraudster.
Suggested read: The Dark Side of Deepfakes: A Halloween Horror Story
TOM TARANIUK: Absolutely, Mark. You touched on so many good points there, including the fact that these scams continue to get more and more sophisticated as well. You did also touch on, of course, one of the cases that I mentioned earlier, this major fraud case drew huge attention due to the use of deepfake technology. A user reportedly from China actually lost over 2 million USD after scammers used AI-generated video to alter account security settings. I mean, these attackers first gained personal information via Telegram, which they used to reset the victim’s password and change the crucial security settings and features like phone numbers, email addresses, Google Authenticators and all of these other settings through deepfakes. This allowed these hackers to drain the account in less than 24 hours. So, Mark, how could the user or the crypto exchange have detected and prevented the deepfake technology before the breach occurred?
MARK TAYLOR: Let’s look at it from the victim’s point of view first. It’s sounds like I don’t know the exact particulars of the case, but it sounds like that the scammers got enough information through Telegram to be able to reset some passwords, or to do something on the account. Now, I would assume that’s probably login details or something like that. That would either have been obtained through hacking, which would probably be unlikely if it’s those specific details, unless they hacked his personal computer or they purchased his information when it had been previously been hacked. It’s much more likely. And what we see a lot as well is that scammers hang around in the crypto and relevant chat areas within Telegram, and they will wait for certain situations and certain parts of conversations to come up, and they will approach people and say, ‘Look, you know, I heard you talking about such and such investment. That’s a pretty good return. But I could do better for you. This is my company. This is what we do’. And they’ve got fake websites to back it up, and they don’t necessarily see the red flags there and then. And I think there’s a level of personal responsibility there that we have to ask ourselves, why did that initial exchange go ahead? If it wasn’t the victim not seeing those red flags and it was a hacking or something like that, there’s not much the victim could have done about that apart from perhaps had better security on their emails, been more careful with their passwords. Use a password manager instead of the same password across ten accounts. There could be many reasons for that from the victim’s point of view. So it depends exactly how it happened, really, as to where the victim could have helped themselves and spotted the red flags there.
Suggested read: Crypto Hygiene: Tips and Best Practices for Clean Crypto
From the crypto exchange’s point of view, if there were velocity controls over the amounts withdrawn within a certain period, and the exchange’s systems monitored this, they might have flagged it and said, ‘Hang on a minute, we haven’t seen this before.’ We’ve only seen 100 grand’s going in, or 200 grand’s coming out. And these structured payments in one day of 500 grand coming out, or a million or whatever the transaction is, you can have your systems spot those kind of transactions and say, this behavior is unusual for this customer. So we’re just going to calm things down a bit. We’re going to freeze it. We’re going to get in touch with the customer and say, ‘Did you really mean for this to go through?’ And that could have perhaps stopped it from that side. And part of the issue is obviously you want your customer journey to be good. You don’t want every time that they suddenly have a large expense, everything to be frozen. But we are getting more and more used to that.
TOM TARANIUK: Completely agree with that as well. I think the onus is on these exchanges or any of these financial institutions to actually protect their community and protect their user base. Of course, if the user is able, after obviously spending so much money on the exchange to have their account taken over all of the security measures circumvented, and then 2 million withdrawn within 24 hours without any account takeover, suspicious actions or behavioral triggers, pushing for KYC checks or anything else. I think the onus does fall on the exchange in this case. And from your experience at CEX.IO or beyond, how are these victims picked? I mean, at the end of the day, if we’re talking about traditional crime, you’d see someone with a lot of jewelry and you figure out that is someone that you’d want to go after, but it is quite hidden behind a veil, let’s say on online digital wealth, etc. So how would you say these individuals are picked by organized crime?
MARK TAYLOR: The victims of these particular crimes do normally tend to be just your general members of the public. Not that 2 million is quite an unusual case, I would say. Normally it’s someone has had their 10,000 or 5000 stolen, and that’s more the kind of customer that knows a little bit about crypto, but not enough to push their portfolio to a large amount. And I think that they kind of tap into those kind of people with investment scams. And look, we can help you. It’s even been quite common that we’ve seen is that you will have certain chat rooms that discuss maybe issues with certain exchanges or about a certain exchange. So I think they’re being kind of intelligent about how they approach it. They are certainly targeting it through particular means and the channels where these things are discussed and the forums and the online presences. But I think also behind the scenes, there is probably also those who do the email blasts as well.
TOM TARANIUK: Absolutely. I mean, we’re talking about throwing a wide net here. So, this $2 million case is perhaps like a criminal group winning the lottery, right? You’re also dealing with chat rooms and communication channels where individuals with nefarious intent can access democratized technology, which can be used against exchanges and individuals. The fact that it’s not just organized criminal groups, but also individuals jumping the gun and thinking, ‘I can do this without much upfront cost and start scamming others,’ is quite scary to me. Are crypto platforms and exchanges prepared to handle the emerging threat of deepfakes and cybercrimes? And Mark, what can they do to stay ahead of these attacks as well?
MARK TAYLOR: Okay, so I think education is a majorly important one there. This particular case that we’ve been studying, the crypto exchange in question in January, put out two blogs with very in-depth information for their customers on how to avoid this kind of thing and how to be aware of the red flags. For instance, when a customer enters a Telegram channel and someone posing as customer support changes their logo and says, ‘I’ll help you out,’ we’re aware of these tactics. We should be entering those channels to educate people, reminding them that we will never approach them there, never ask for their password, and that anyone who does is a scammer. It’s also the industry’s responsibility to continually find new ways to educate users, not just once, but regularly. Continuous reminders are crucial because those outside the industry can easily forget important security practices.
TOM TARANIUK: It’s both the public and also these companies educating their employees as well. Mark, what steps should other companies take immediately after they’ve been attacked by AI-driven scammers?
MARK TAYLOR: Let’s say you’ve got to think, how can we approach this better? What? How do I educate my customers better? What can I do from a technology standpoint to recognize when I’m being sent an AI video instead of a proper liveness check video? But I think the responsibility is to educate, but also to continually question your controls.
TOM TARANIUK: Absolutely, Mark. And it touches on what I wanted to talk about next. I mean, how does the use of AI fraud actually alter the risk of the profile for individual crypto users? What are you doing to to put in place for these new sophisticated fraud schemes which might be coming into your platform and taking other users capital.
MARK TAYLOR: We mustn’t forget our old ways of detecting these kind of things and the common sense ways of investigation, because it’s quite easy to get through the door, perhaps with AI and perhaps change stuff which it shouldn’t necessarily be. But if you get an AI, deepfake video sent to you and your systems don’t recognize that it’s fake and you’ve got the answer that you want and you think, yeah, that genuinely is the person. It’s the follow-up work after they’ve got through the gateway. And KYC has always been like this, not just for new technology, not just with AI and deepfake. KYC has always just been a gateway. You’ve got to watch once they’re in your city and they’re through your doors, you’ve got to watch what they’re doing. You’ve got to say, how is that happening? Is that usual for that pattern?
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You need systems that can monitor and detect patterns, allowing you to say, ‘Hang on a minute, this isn’t how this person usually transacts.’ You need a way to track their behavior once they’re inside the system. For example, this person has always logged in from their home in Mallorca, but suddenly they’re logging in from Northern Africa. What’s happening? Are they on holiday? You need to stop, check, and ask—not just ask, but sometimes risk disrupting the customer journey. You may have to pause the transaction, and yes, you might have egg on your face and say, ‘Look, I’m really sorry, customer. You were right, it was you. Let’s proceed with the transaction.’ But at least you saved them from losing $10,000 to a scammer. So, I believe it’s not just about focusing on KYC and deepfakes at the entry point. It’s about monitoring activity and behavior after they’re inside.
TOM TARANIUK: Oh, 100%. And monitoring behavior over time is super important. And creating the risk profiles that are needed to spot and let’s say, stem fraud before it happens. You mentioned that regulators often lack a deep understanding of crypto, which leads, of course, to core issues not being effectively addressed. So, Mark, I’m really keen to hear your thoughts on the crypto Travel Rule. But before we dive deeper, let me briefly explain. For those who might not be familiar with the Travel Rule or just need a quick refresher as well. The crypto Travel Rule is a recommendation that requires financial institutions and also virtual asset service providers, or VASPs, to collect and share personal data about crypto transactions. So this rule, of course, is intended to stop and prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. Mark, what is your take on the Travel Rule?
MARK TAYLOR: The Travel Rule is a great idea because the blockchain, by its very nature, is not necessarily an attractive place for an organized criminal. The whole reason that money laundering exists is to create layers to distance yourself from the money. So it becomes harder to prove in a court and beyond a reasonable doubt. And the blockchain, every single transaction leaves a trail of salt behind you. But the problem with that and what the blockchain was missing was it leads you just to a very long number. That means nothing. You don’t know who owns that end result. You can track it. You can tell that it’s gone to this wallet, but you can’t say who owns that wallet. So the travel rule is actually a really good idea. It kind of closes one of the doors and really brings the blockchain to the fore of why it’s good and why it protects, because no organized criminal wants to be tracked in their activity at all. And the blockchain does that. But what’s been helping organized criminals and fraudsters is the fact that it’s really hard to find out, even though you can see where it’s gone on a map, you can’t say who owns that end destination. And this is why the Travel Rule is quite an important piece of legislation. However, it does have its issues. And those kind of issues are:
I could go on and on and on about the the difficulties, but just because of the difficulties, it doesn’t mean we don’t start somewhere. We have to start somewhere. And those difficulties will get ironed out over time.
Suggested read: Travel Rule Challenges: FAQ
TOM TARANIUK: Thank you. Mark, let’s dig into it right after this. So it’s time for our behind the scenes at some sub take. For many companies, particularly those new to crypto. The challenge isn’t just knowing about the Travel Rule, it’s understanding how to actually comply with it. So to help professionals like yourself navigate these complex compliance requirements, we at Sumsub have indeed launched a free open access Travel Rule course.
Mark welcome back. I’ve just mentioned the crypto Travel Rule and what we offer at Sumsub to help bridge the knowledge gap, but for our audience tuning into the Podcast, please could you kindly explain to the audience how exactly does the Travel Rule protect both data security and customer privacy in the cryptocurrency space?
MARK TAYLOR: Well, of course you’ve got other pieces of legislation that enforce that data protection and privacy. And they make sure whether it’s GDPR or whether it’s Data Protection Act, wherever you are and there’s on the planet, there’s pretty much a piece of legislation that helps protect your privacy. One of the things it does do is it adds a layer of questioning that customers weren’t used to before, which is ‘Where are you sending your money?’ And it’s not necessarily the type of things that your bank would ask you either. They might ask you why you’re sending the money there, but they know where it’s going because they know who owns the bank account that doesn’t exist in crypto. So and the customers aren’t used to being asked it. So there will be a change in the journey for the customer there, and it will be difficult. And they may well be concerned about their privacy, but the same entities that have to follow the Travel Rule because they’re regulated entities and they want to be part of centralized finance are the ones that absolutely have to stick by their privacy laws as well. So the laws are already there to protect people. And yes, sharing that bit of extra information might seem intimidating, but your bank already knows it. Traditional finance already knows where your money is going. It might not know why you’re sending it, but it will know where it’s going. And it’s just bringing crypto back in line with traditional finance in that part.
TOM TARANIUK: Definitely. And if you want to align the both, it’s it’s very necessary as well. Although paradoxical to the DeFi sort of mindset that was governing the space ten years ago. But what kind of shifts do you think this Rule could create for crypto compliance moving forward as well?
MARK TAYLOR: When we’re looking particularly at fraudsters and scammers and financial criminals they never go away. They’re just going to adapt. They’re either going to move or they’re going to adapt. They’re going to use things like we were talking about previously, such as AI and deepfakes, because you’re going to be looking at proving who you’re sending it to. You’re going to have to put a name in. You’re going to have to put an end destination. And then that crypto exchange is then going to verify that with the receiving crypto exchange, that they hold the details of that account and it matches the name that they were told. So it brings in a level, an extra layer of complexity, but not necessarily that difficult because we’re just talking about the gateway here again, which I mean, organized criminals have been combating this gateway for the last 40, 50 years, and it’s not new to them on how to do it. So they’re just going to have to go to the other exchange where you’re sending the money and create that fake account as well. So it is possible and it will be possible for fraudsters to sidestep it, but it’s going to be on the crypto exchanges to make sure you have those checks in place, make sure that your KYC is really important, but also to watch and map the patterns as well of where they’re sending money, how often are they doing it? And then do your source of funds and source of wealth questions. When you say, look, you know, I’ve noticed you’ve sent this person $50,000 over the last two months. What’s that for? Where’s it coming from? Why are you sending it to them? Prove it to us. I think that we’re going to have to react in that way, but I don’t think it’s necessarily going to stop the fraudsters, those that can’t be bothered to deal with that, then they will move perhaps more towards DeFi.
Suggested read: What is the FATF Travel Rule? The Ultimate Guide to Compliance (2024)
TOM TARANIUK: Oh, completely agree as well. And I think the onus is on the companies as we share again to have all of these, let’s say, frameworks in place and these processes and these roadblocks for these criminals. And I think this Rule actually is going to help quite a bit. I mean, now another change in the industry is the of course, the influence, the influence finance, tech or fintech is having on shaping political decisions. So according to a Gemini survey, actually, for the first time in US history, cryptocurrency is set to influence the presidential election. So mark my question to you. What do you think this reveals about increasing? Well, the increasing impact of regulatory concerns on cryptocurrency investment and ownership.
MARK TAYLOR: You’re absolutely right. I believe there was a survey from Grayscale. They said that it’s nearly 50% now of voters in America say that their investment package and what they’re interested in the election about 50% do consider that crypto will be part of their investments, and they want to know how the regulation is going to go. And also apparently inflation. I’m not a politician. I’m not heavily into politics. But apparently inflation is one of the major points here. And that brings questions around the US dollar. And when you see perhaps BTC that is has a hard cap supply, you know, how many are out there. It’s harder to change, even though it’s quite volatile at times. It’s harder to change the value over time because you know how many are out there. That’s kind of attractive to the voter as well. So I think it will. From the political side, I think there are definite influences. I mean, Donald Trump previously had said that crypto seems like a scam. He’s now gone and opened World Liberty Financial, and he’s now got his own crypto financial firm.
TOM TARANIUK: He was peddling NFTs as well. But I mean, the reason he’s taken such a juxtaposed, let’s say, view and change his stance is because 73% of us crypto owners say that actually their candidate’s stance on crypto will affect their vote. And of course, this is how presidential candidates are going to be adapting their platforms to address these these individuals as well. But from your side, Mark, would you have any answer around how these presidential candidates are adapting their platforms, their outreach, etc., to address these changes?
MARK TAYLOR: I wouldn’t necessarily say that what they do now to to get through the election is important. I think it’s probably what they’re going to do after, and we’ve seen before that, let’s say, the Trump camp become elected. We know that he believes in deregulation, which I don’t think is the right route. And that will be very attractive to a lot of crypto investors is that they and crypto companies is that they’ll be able to move their money a lot easier and deregulation. But very soon I think they’d recognize that they’re not as well protected. I think regulation is important. I think that’s more the stance that Kamala Harris is coming from is, yes, we’re going to be welcoming to crypto and AI, but we’re going to regulate it. And I think that’s the important one. It needs to be regulated properly. Look at the history of regulation of crypto in the US. There’s so many entities that are kind of fighting for no, it’s my I want to regulate it. I want SEC or Department of Justice and everybody wants a piece of the pie. I think they need to decide on a clear format as to how they’re going to go forward with that.
Suggested read: Building AML Compliance for NFT Marketplaces
TOM TARANIUK: I agree so much as well. I mean, there needs to be a clear format. From from your point of view, Mark, would you be able to elaborate on any other regulatory challenges that you’ve come across in your experience and your time in crypto?
MARK TAYLOR: So from a regulatory point of view now bear in mind I don’t want to badmouth regulators. They have an awful difficult job. They have to deal with a new piece of legislation, and they have to decide how they’re going to regulate that. And it’s really difficult when you work for a government entity and you’re understaffed and you’re underfunded, and it’s hard to get educated, clever people who understand and have that knowledge already into your system. So they’re already kind of on the back foot. So I really feel for the regulators. But I think it’s important to engage with the industry. I think in current regulation of crypto, there’s a level of fear. I don’t think it’s necessarily control that we want to bring you in line with traditional finance. I think it’s recognizing that crypto is of interest to the money laundering, the organized criminal, and it is so different from normal finance. It’s hard to get past the level of fear in some of the regulators of how are we going to manage this, how are we going to protect the consumer and meet our goals of looking after the consumer? And I think that instead of seeing us as adversaries, I think we’re in that game and we want we believe in the regulation and legislation as well. You know, get us to help you, help us to get better as well. Instead of a more punitive stance, take a helping stance. There are areas where you have to take a punitive stance, such as FTX. You know, I mean, you can’t, not as a regulator and law enforcement. You’ve got to take a stance against that kind of activity. But for those genuine bodies that are out there that really want to become part of traditional finance—work with us and please try and get rid of your fear because we’ve got the same fears and we’re trying to stop them.
TOM TARANIUK: Oh, completely. Mark. I mean, everyone’s trying to get their affairs in order as we move forward. So finally, Mark, looking ahead, what would you say are your biggest hopes for crypto regulation in 2025?
MARK TAYLOR: My kind of biggest hopes are that the regulators will obviously put their regulation in. We’ve got MiCA coming in Europe. Most countries are going to have that kind of active by the end of the year. Or maybe depending upon which entity or which jurisdiction it is, partway through 2025. But I would kind of ask the same sort of thing as I said before, really, is that, yes, you’ve absolutely got to put that regulation in place, but please be patient with us as we try to follow it, because it’s a really we’re not part of or traditionally we haven’t been part of the financial services, and there’s a level of learning on our side to come over to your side. And we kind of like to meet you in the middle. So yes, we are going to get it wrong, but we are going to be transparent with you. So my hopes are that when these regulations are put in place, that an open dialogue remains. And it’s not just the regulations are there. Here’s the stick. Let’s use the carrot a little bit.
TOM TARANIUK: There needs to be direct communications on both parties, right. Or between both parties, which is essential as we move forward as well.
MARK TAYLOR: And most regulators regulators are pretty good at that. But we just let’s maintain that as they get put into place these regulations.
TOM TARANIUK: Now to change the pace and also get to know you even better with some quick fire questions to close the show. So Mark, are you in fact ready? I mean, this is a situation where you don’t think, just say the first thing that comes to your head and we can get going.
MARK TAYLOR: I have no idea what’s coming, but let’s go.
TOM TARANIUK: When choosing a crypto wallet, do you go for more features or better security?
MARK TAYLOR: Better security to start off with until you’re comfortable and then you can expand your usability.
TOM TARANIUK: Strong passwords or biometric authentication?
MARK TAYLOR: Biometric authentication. Be very aware of these DNA companies that ask for your DNA. Because we started off with having to put a password in, then we used our fingerprints. Then we used our face. In 20 years time, we’ll be using our DNA.
TOM TARANIUK: Is online fraud in crypto more about technology flaws or human error?
MARK TAYLOR: It’s more about the abuse of the general niceness of human condition. I think, it’s definitely more social engineering side.
TOM TARANIUK: Definitely not a binary question. So great to have that from your side. Mark, what one habit would you rely on to stay safe online?
MARK TAYLOR: Question everything. Do your due diligence.
TOM TARANIUK: If you could have any other career other than the one that you’re currently in, what would it be?
MARK TAYLOR: Any other career? I would like to be a fighter pilot like my granddad.
TOM TARANIUK: I love it, I am colorblind and I’m too tall, I think so that would never work out. But thank you so much for joining me on what the fraud today. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you.
MARK TAYLOR: The pleasure was all mine. Thank you for inviting me.
TOM TARANIUK: At the end of the day, Mark Taylor touched on some key points regarding regulators. It might feel like a tug of war at times, but we all must agree that scammers are the real enemy here. As the Travel Rule is implemented across Europe by 2025, we must focus on ensuring that each of our exchanges, communities, and businesses is kept safe—along with each of our users. Thank you for watching this episode of “What the Fraud?” If you’re enjoying the show and finding it helpful, please hit the follow button on your favorite podcast platform and leave a review.
